Waking Up Goliath

It has not been possible here in these two seasons to share all of the interviews I did—only just over half. Sometimes the reason an interview is missing is because their life has changed so much in the last two years that it felt like the stories they offered then wouldn’t be the same stories they might offer now. Sometimes it has been because the interview was very personal and information was shared that wouldn’t be appropriate to share publicly. Quite frankly, however, lots of the time it was because of me and my lack of skill as using the technology well. Either I only remembered to hit “record” half way through the interview, or there was something muffling a microphone, etc. I did warn you in the opening of this podcast series that this was an exercise in incompetence for me! The fact that I’ve had anything to share at all is thanks to one very special person in my life: my son Micah Garrido who is a professional sound engineer in Los Angeles and did an amazing job stitching together shreds of audio into something that sounded coherent. Micah is the only person who listened to the audio from the interviews more than I did. He also is 29, and I thought that as a way of wrapping up this project, it would be fun to interview him about what he heard as the youngest person in the whole mix.

As you’ll be able to tell from the laughter between us, Fr. Jeffrey Ott and I have known each other for a long time. Twenty-five years ago now, we were classmates at Aquinas Institute both pursuing our Masters of Divinity. Fr. Jeffrey Ott is now Pastor at Our Lady of Lourdes Church, referred to as the Mother Church of African American Catholics in the Archdiocese of Atlanta, across the street from the Martin Luther King Jr National Historical Park and only a block away from the historic Ebenezer Baptist Church where King preached. Jeffrey is a member of the St. Martin de Porres province of the Order of Preachers—better known as the Dominicans. Listen and you’ll learn more about Jeffrey’s deep affinity for St. Martin de Porres, but you’ll also learn more about the struggles that many ministers face when trying to lift up the dignity of the whole Body of Christ while also acknowledging power differentials within the Body. (Released September 6)

When you listen to my interview with Mary Mirrione, you’ll quickly figure out that this was not a typical interview for me. I’ve known Mary for around half of my life now as one of my sisters in the Catechesis of the Good Shepherd movement—a Montessori-based faith formation experience for children starting in infancy through 12 years old. For many years, Mary coordinated CGS at St. Anne’s Parish in a suburb of Phoenix, serving over 5000 families. Her commitment to sharing CGS with children in poverty has led to extensive collaboration with the Missionaries of Charity and the Franciscan Friars in such diverse places as Kolkata, India, Portugal, Bangladesh, and Honduras. For almost 15 years now she has served as the national director of the US Association of CGS, a position that has made her a well-known voice in the USCCB committee work related to catechetics. Mary was raised in Brooklyn and met her future husband in a karate class. She is tough and direct and protective of those in her care… much like a shepherd might be with sheep. She is also one of the holiest, most loving people I know… much like the “good shepherd” himself. When I talked with Mary, she had just been reading a book on Holy Daring, focusing on the word “parrhesia” meaning frank, direct speech. Her comments on this topic helped to shape Chapter 2 in Redeeming Power in a most particular way. (Released August 30)

Jesus once quipped that a prophet is not welcome in his own hometown. Ever the rebel, Fr. John Thomas Lane has enjoyed testing that proverb now for over 15 years as pastor of St Paschal Babylon Parish in Highland Heights, OH—the parish he grew up in as a child, with family members still nearby. Moreover, Fr. Lane now also serves as the Provincial Superior for the U.S. Province of the Congregation of the Blessed Sacrament—a religious community he has known since childhood. This congregation, founded by St. Peter Julian Eymard, has a commitment to “respond to the hungers of the human family with the riches of God’s love manifested in the Eucharist” (Rule of Life 3) The day I reached him in Fall 2022, he was in the process of manifesting God’s love by signing 2000 Walkathon thank you letters for the parish school. We had a frank, funny conversation about parish life in the modern U.S. with all its multiple opportunities for miscommunication and misinterpretation whenever power is involved. And of course, it is always involved. (Released August 23)

I met Sr. Megan McElroy while I was still full-time on the Aquinas Institute faculty and she was one of the two novice directors for the Interprovincial Dominican Novitiate—a collaborative endeavor of 19 Dominican women’s congregations across the US to offer a shared orientation to Dominican life for women affiliating with any one of the participating congregations. At the time I interviewed Megan, she had been elected to the provinicial council of her own Dominican congregation—the Grand Rapid Dominicans. It was a tough season of life, with Covid still in the rear view mirror. As you listen, it will come as no surprise to you that since our interview, Megan has been elected prioress of her religious community. Megan’s understanding of power is rooted in scripture, particularly Paul’s letter to the Ephesians, chapter 3. Just over five minutes into this interview, you’ll figure out why. Megan’s words on this passage so impacted me that they appear again in Redeeming Power at the end of Chapter 7 (Released August 16)

Every Catholic school district should be so lucky as to have a superintendent like Dr. Erin Barisano. I first met Erin when she was the assistant superintendent in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles before taking on her current role as the Superintendent for the Diocese of Orange, and I was immediately struck by her professional competence. No surprise Erin would be the 2018 recipient of the University Council of Educational Administration’s award for Excellence in Educational Leadership. But professional competence has never been the only thing that distinguishes Erin. What struck me most when I met Erin was her deep commitment to ongoing spiritual practice. It was my interview with Erin that nudged me in the direction of writing Chapter 12 in Redeeming Power about the importance of learning to honor sabbath time. And this was not the only contribution Erin made to the book. As you’ll hear in these highlights from our conversation, Erin was also the one who helped me begin to think more deeply about different generational experiences of power and influence. (Released August 9)

Rhonda Miska is a bright light in the world of Catholic communications. With a background in community organizing and deep spiritual roots in the Dominican tradition, Rhonda currently works full-time as the Communications Director at the Church of St. Timothy in Blaine, Minnesota. She is also the founder of the Catholic Women’s Preaching Circle—a grassroots organization working to prepare Catholic women to be more effective sharers of the Word of God. Rhonda serves on the advisory board of Catholic Women Preach and is a regular contributor to U.S. Catholic. She is the author of the Synodal Preaching Guide. In addition to being a fine communicator, however, Rhonda is also a superb networker. Rhonda enjoys connecting people to other people she thinks they should know. Instead of only promoting her own work, Rhonda often others’ books and essays, trying to help good ideas garner wider audiences. Once upon a time, I had the good fortune of having Rhonda as a preaching student. Without a doubt, I now have more to learn from her than she ever learned from me. (Released August 2)

As an administrator, I’ve long been fascinated by meeting organization and facilitation. Nothing drives me nuts like a poorly run meeting that drags on but then ends without any new clarity or action steps. My temptation in those moments is to take charge and keep things moving at a good clip. But in doing so, I can often step on others’ toes or not allow all voices to be heard. In short, I can misuse power. A couple years ago, two of my colleagues in the Catechesis world introduced me to a different model of convening and facilitating called Sociocracy. Joann Terranova and Trinka Hamel are both long time parish leaders and conveners of community. Their regional catechetical organization in northwest Washington state functions in more organized and efficient manner than other similar organization that I know of, yet it is also the most inclusive and joyful. Everyone feels like they have a voice and can make a difference. I asked Joann and Trinka if I might interview them specifically on what they’d learned about “the power of convening” which is a focus of Chapter 4 in Redeeming Power. (Released July 26)

I became aware of Bishop Gary Gordon from others who worked with him, either during his time as the bishop of Whitehorse in the Yukon from 2006-2014 or the bishop of Victoria in British Columbia where he has been since 2014. This is not your usual bishop, each person tried to convey to me. He has a huge heart. He'll go anywhere. Reach out to anyone. For many years now Bishop Gary has been the link between the Canadian Catholic Bishops Conference and the Interfaith Committee on Chaplaincy with the Correctional Services of Canada. He has a long and deep relationship with the First Nations people and is most proud of the name he was gifted with by the Sto’:lo (Stah lo) people in 2006: Xylohmetoxw (pronounced Hy-oth’-meh-took) meaning “Taking Care of the People.” Bishop Gary’s episcopal crest with its salmon in the middle speaks to his ongoing commitment to the part of the world he has now long called home… and also quite possibly his abiding love for fishing. When you hear him speak, you’ll hear him reference Tasso—his favorite fishing haunt. And you’ll understand why people near and far talk about his approachable style of ministry leadership. (Released July 19)

Laura Kelly Fanucci is a powerful writer, speaker, and retreat leader, yet at this point she is probably most well-known as the convener of MotheringSpirit.com—an ecumenical gathering space for those interested in the spirituality of parenting. While online conversation on social media is often perceived as shallow, Laura is known for going deep—speaking to painful human realities like the loss of children and cancer. She never avoids tough topics but writes from the crucible of living in the midst of grief and illness… and she invites others to be honest about the realities of life as well. While the label of ‘influencer’ makes her nervous, as you’ll hear in this interview, she is someone who is very conscientious about the way she exercises her influence. And, when I write in Redeeming Power, chapter 11, about people whose power is sourced in the authenticity and integrity, Laura is definitely one of those people I have in mind. (Released July 12)